Jim Heininger talks with Jason Barnard about mastering the three R's of brand evolution. Jim Heininger, Founder and Principal of Rebranding Experts, discusses the differences between brand Refresh, Repositioning, and complete Rebranding. Jim also explains the two primary reasons for rebranding: 1. the necessity, due to mergers or crises, and opportunity, and 2. to pursue new strategic growth paths. Jim Heininger and Jason Barnard explore the challenges in rebranding, such as legal trademark issues. Jim also talks about the significance of the role of the CEO in driving the rebranding process and strategies for retaining the brand’s integrity. Learn how successful companies navigate these transformations, from quick visual updates to comprehensive identity changes. Jim concludes the episode with insights into how short brand names can streamline branding strategy in a digital world. What you’ll learn from Jim Heininger 00:00 Jim Heininger and Jason Barnard 03:10 What Did Jason Barnard Highlight in Jim Heininger’s Knowledge Panel? 03:34 What Did Jason Barnard Focus On in Jim Heininger’s Google Learn About Results? 04:23 What Are the Two Reasons Why a Company Would Need to Rebrand? 06:06 What Makes Rebranding More Pragmatic or Imaginative in Both Cases? 07:15 How Long Does Rebranding Usually Take? 07:46 What Are the Factors That Influence How Long a Rebranding Process Takes? 08:07 What Challenges Do Organizations Face When Changing Their Name? 08:20 What Factors Determine Whether a New Brand Name Will be Approved? 09:09 How Did Meta Manage to Launch its Rebrand so Quickly Despite its Common Name? 09:29 Why Did Facebook Rebrand to Meta? 10:04 How Did Rebranding to Meta Help the Company Expand Into the Virtual Reality Space? 10:55 What Did Jason Barnard Emphasize About How Fast Facebook Was Able to Rebrand to Meta? 12:16 What Challenge Do Companies Face When They Name Themselves After Their Product? 12:58 How Can Companies Handle the Challenges of Rebranding When Their Name is the Same as Their Product? 13:42 Why Did Jason Barnard Ask if a Business Was ‘A Lot’ or ‘A Little’ Devalued if There’s an Exit? 15:23 How Can Professionals Change Their Company Name to Separate it From Their Personal Identity? 16:35 What is the Ideal Timeframe for a Successful Rebrand? 18:58 Why Will the Short Brand Name Trend Be Short-Lived Rather Than Long-Lasting? 19:00 When Will Companies Move Beyond the Trend of Ultra-Short Brand Names? 19:02 Why Do Brands Prioritize Simplicity When Evolving Their Names? 19:44 Why is Simplifying a Brand Name Considered a Refresh Rather Than a Full Rebrand? 20:05 Why Do Brands Choose Unique Names Over Descriptive Ones Despite the Marketing Challenge? 20:21 Why Do Some New Businesses Start With Descriptive Names Before Building Recognition? 21:05 What Key Responsibilities Must CEOs Own During the Rebranding Process? 21:42 What Key Decisions Must CEOs Champion During Strategic Brand Transformation? 22:05 Why Must CEOs Personally Embody the New Brand Vision? 22:38 Why Does Late-Stage CEO Approval Doom Rebranding Efforts? This episode was recorded live on video February 11th 2025 https://youtube.com/live/UbQV9MUzTpY Links to pieces of content relevant to this topic:Website: https://www.rebrandingexperts.com/Twitter: @RebrandExpertsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rebrandingexperts/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rebrandingexperts/Jim Heininger Transcript from Jim Heininger with Jason Barnard on Fastlane Founders And Legacy. The Three R's of Brand Evolution [00:00:00] Narrator: Fastlane Founders and Legacy with Jason Barnard. Each week, Jason sits down with successful entrepreneurs, CEOs and executives and get them to share how they mastered the delicate balance between rapid growth and enduring success in the business world. How can we quickly build a profitable business that stands the test of time and becomes our legacy, a legacy we're proud of. Fastlane Founders and Legacy with Jason Barnard. [00:00:36] Jason Barnard: Hello everybody and welcome to another Fastlane Founders and Legacy with me, Jason Barnard. And a quick hello and we're good to go. Welcome to the show, Jim Heininger. [00:00:45] Jim Heininger: Nice. Thank you. [00:00:47] Jason Barnard: Did I get the name right? [00:00:48] Jim Heininger: I will not sing back, just so you know. [00:00:51] Jason Barnard: Well, the nice thing about singing is you have more time to get the name right. And I get it right more often than I get it wrong. [00:00:58] Jim Heininger: It worked. [00:00:59] Jason Barnard: Today we're going to be talking about Rebranding, and one thing that really interested me was the fact you differentiated between rebranding, refresh, repositioning. Were those the three or there are more? [00:01:11] Jim Heininger: The three main buckets. And the term Rebranding is used very broadly. And so I think it's important to kind of break it down and understand what people are actually referring to. So we look at the base level as kind of a brand Refresh. That's the visual makeover. Perhaps a new logo, color palette, maybe some new messaging or a tagline, but it's really kind of a visual makeover, a new coat of paint on a brand to give it some new energy, give it some new life, make it more modern, relevant. The second stage would be Repositioning, where you're truly going after a new marketplace. You're trying to offer new products or services, and you're needing to pivot the brand to be able to appeal to that new customer or that. That desired customer. We see companies like what Victoria's Secret and Abercrombie and Fitch was another one. Even the retail space a while ago did that, trying to kind of shed some old brand positioning to be able to, to be more successful and reach more customers. At the end of the day. A rebranding in our eyes, is the whole. The whole package. So it's when you do the refresh and you do the repositioning, you also change the name of the company. You introduce a new brand name, new mission, vision, values. You change the culture of the organization to be able to deliver that new brand promise to customers in a way that you couldn't before. [00:02:45] Jason Barnard: So kind of a new company? [00:02:48] Jim Heininger: Resetting the company. It's a great opportunity, rarely comes along, so take advantage of it. [00:02:54] Jason Barnard: Brilliant. Well, what we focus on at Kalicube is the name change because that's where we can help. We find the digital footprint, we find every mention of the brand and we can help with our algorithms with Kalicube Pro to change that name. And before we get into the meat and potatoes of this, we focus on brand names, including people's brand names. And your brand name has this delightful Knowledge Panel with Google's AI at the top. Looks pretty good. It's pulling the description from your company website. I would suggest it would be better if it pulled it from your personal website since you are not your company and vice versa. But that's a really nice Knowledge Panel. But then I looked into Google Learn About. If you've looked at that, they've knocked it out of the park. And this is a learning experience. This is ChatGPT on steroids with search results. Busted chat LLM engine plus knowledge. So the three technologies we need to focus on and you can see here, it immediately understands that you're a specialist in rebranding. It understands who you are. It can give me follow up questions on the left about rebranding and it's bringing me down your funnel. So your personal brand, as soon as I search for you, is going to bring me down your funnel. Your specialist topic when it's well designed. And Fabrice Canel from Bing explained to me that's what they're doing with CoPilot, that's where we're going, is these machines are going to recreate the funnel for brands and for personal brands. And that's hugely exciting. [00:04:19] Jim Heininger: Yeah, good, good. [00:04:21] Jason Barnard: Groovy. Right. Okay. So why should a company rebrand? [00:04:25] Jim Heininger: Well, we look at it as kind of two reasons, two buckets of why. There's a need. So you have to make a brand change for some reason that could be a merger or an acquisition. Sometimes it's a leadership change where they're wanting to reflect their, you know, their new vision for the organization or you face a crisis and you're wanting to leave baggage behind by changing the name, the understanding of who you are. And that's where actually most rebranding take place because of mergers and acquisitions, where you have your forced into making a decision of which brand you go with or do you create a new brand. The other exciting bucket is opportunity. And that's when a company is wanting to pursue a new strategic growth path. They're realizing that their existing brand is just not. It's an anchor, it's not allowing them to grow in the way that they want or they need or it brings associations with it that don't reflect that new strategic growth pattern. And they want to create opportunity with their brand to be able to go out and do more business in the desired, you know, arenas. So. And there's a lot of crossover between the two, definitely. But it really helps you realize that sometimes you're forced into doing it and other times you, you do it for strategic reasons. And that's where the most exciting activity takes place. [00:05:52] Jason Barnard: Right. When it's an opportunity, it's a lot of fun and when it's a necessity, it's kind of functional, boring. Both need to be done. But in both cases, is it more pragmatic or imaginative? What's involved? [00:06:06] Jim Heininger: Well, I think, you know, and what we will always say is look at it as an opportunity. So, if you're merging two organizations together, as an example, don't just say,