Could your perfectionism actually be a sign of depression?Today, Jenn is talking with Dr. Margaret Rutherford, a clinical psychologist with thirty years of experience, who is also an author, TedX speaker, and podcast host. Dr. Rutherford discusses the two types of perfectionism, and how one version of it is maladaptive and is actually harming us. She describes what socially determined perfectionism is, and gives some helpful tips about identifying it and tools to work through challenging the behaviors. Tune in to find out if perfectionism might actually be hiding your pain.This episode may contain topics that are triggering such as abuse and suicide.The Salad With a Side of Fries podcast is hosted by Jenn Trepeck, discussing wellness and weight loss for real life, clearing up the myths, misinformation, bad science & marketing surrounding our nutrition knowledge and the food industry. Let’s dive into wellness and weight loss for real life, including drinking, eating out, and skipping the grocery store. IN THIS EPISODE:●   [6:10] Was Dr. Margaret Rutherford always interested in the psychology space?●   [7:50] Did Dr. Margaret Rutherford struggle with eating in her younger years?●   [11:00] How did she come to find the overlap of perfectionism and depression? ●   [14:46] Where is the line between a coping or survival strategy vs. behaviors that are maladaptive and hurt us?●   [20:34] What is socially determined perfectionism?●   [26:44] If we don’t identify with this conversation, how can we support others who may? ●   [30:39] How do vulnerabilities translate into flaws?●   [31:46] How do we help people walk through healing? What are Dr. Margaret Rutherford’s 5 stages of healing?●   [37:37] How do you start to challenge your behaviors?●   [38:55] How does Dr. Rutherford help patients find true self compassion?●   [41:03] Why is “breaking the silence” so important?KEY TAKEAWAYS:●   How we hide perfectionism depression: we don’t allow the experience of negative emotions. It's almost like dissociating, like it's there, but we don’t feel it. There is also the fear of being exposed. The shame invades our self worth. Vulnerability translates into flaws. ●   Even if you have moved past or healed past toxic behaviors, it is still possible to struggle with toxic thinking. For example, if you’ve struggled with an eating disorder in the past but no longer have those behaviors, you may still struggle with the thoughts that come with eating disordered thinking. ●   Many times, the effort to control the uncontrollable often shows up in our food as perfectionism. ●   Not all perfectionism is destructive, but destructive or maladaptive perfectionism is. Maladaptive perfectionism can lead to increased risk of suicidality and it can be easy to hide. QUOTES: “But the trauma timeline is very helpful for people because it actually asks you to go back to certain times in your life when you were very young, to when you’re a teenager, to when you’re in your twenties or thirties, and talk about the things or acknowledge the things that were helpful to you, that really helped you feel good about yourself and the things that did not, the things that began to make you feel unsafe or unlovable. And you wanna go back with compassion. It’s not about blaming people.” - Dr. Margaret Rutherford“But where you get hope is when you see yourself change. When you allow yourself to express an emotion you’ve never allowed yourself to express. When you do something or you don't do something you always do, that you can begin to say I am making choices in the moment.” - Dr. Margaret Rutherford“It just begins opening. It begins giving you freedom. Self-compassion is important, but so is the sense of self-acceptance. And my working definition of self-acceptance is that neither your strengths nor your vulnerabilities completely define you. They both exist, but they don’t. Neither one of them completely define who you are.” - Dr. Margaret Rutherford"Looking closer at your own perfectionism and understanding yourself might be a critical piece for your mental and physical health." - Jenn TrepeckRESOURCES:Become A Member of Salad with a Side of FriesJenn’s Free Menu PlanA Salad With a Side of FriesA Salad With a Side of Fries InstagramGUEST RESOURCES: Dr. Margaret Rutherford WebsitePerfectly Hidden Depression BookThe Self Work PodcastJenn as a Guest on Dr. Rutherford's Podcast: 340 SelfWork: What You Need to Know About the Merry-Go-Round of Dieting: A Conversation with Jenn TrepeckDr. Margaret Rutherford's InstagramGUEST BIO:Margaret Robinson Rutherford Ph.D., a clinical psychologist with thirty years of experience, is also an author, TedX speaker, and podcast host. Her book, Perfectly Hidden Depression: How to Break Free from the Perfectionism That Masks Your Depression, has reached thousands here in the US, as well as having an international impact, with translations reaching from Korea to Italy, Turkey to Germany. Her highly popular podcast, The SelfWork Podcast, has been continuously rated as one of the best podcasts for mental health and depression.Dr. Margaret’s known for her vibrantly engaging and theoretically well-crafted presentations, whether live or virtual. Whether her diverse audiences are made up of mental health professionals, construction workers, or office managers, her passionate message is that healthy mental and emotional lives can be created through becoming more transparent with one another. Sharing who you really are with those you trust is a huge step toward connection and good mental health. Rates of depression and suicide are skyrocketing. And there’s something we can do!She’s further challenging the mental health profession to question their overreliance on the official symptom checklist for diagnosis. Instead, we need to create normalcy around suicidal feelings, listen to each person’s actual experience of their life, and respond with safety and compassion, rather than stigmatizing this very real and excruciatingly painful part of human existence