It may seem like a distant dream to imagine that the decades-long settler-colonial project which is Israel could finally end and transform into a state where all faiths, ethnicities, and cultures could thrive together in their diversity and equality. It seems like a distant dream because, as we all know, the reality that we're witnessing is the opposite of that — it's an escalation of an already ruthless and bloody ethnic cleansing campaign that officially began in 1948. Although a democratic, multi-ethnic, multicultural, multi-religious state may seem like an exercise in imagination, it's hardly a futile pursuit. We must constantly be exercising our imagination and dreaming of a better world, not only because it's important to exercise those muscles of hope, but because in doing so we're also spreading the seeds of knowledge and inspiration which could themselves affect change. To talk about what could be, we've brought on Ghada Karmi, a Palestinian-born academic, physician and author of many books, including In Search of Fatima: A Palestinian Story, and, most recently, One State: The Only Democratic Future for Palestine-Israel, published by Pluto Press. This is part 6 of our ongoing series on Palestine. Ghada was a young child in Palestine during the 1948 Nakba, or catastrophe, and has spent many decades involved in the movement for Palestinian liberation. In this conversation, we discuss why a single Palestinian state from the river to the sea is the only just way forward, what some of the barriers to this happening are, what the sentiment of many Palestinains is when thinking about living side-by-side with Israelis in a democratic state, how this dream might turn into a reality, and much more. Further Resources: One State The Only Democratic Future for Palestine-Israel, by Ghada Karmi Upstream: Palestine Pt. 1: A Socialist Introduction with Sumaya Awad Upstream: Palestine Pt. 2: Justice for Some with Noura Erakat Upstream: Palestine Pt. 3: Settler-Colonialism and Medical Apartheid with Rupa Marya & Jess Ghannam Upstream: Palestine Pt. 4: False Solutions and Paths of Resistance with Sumaya Awad Upstream: Palestine Pt. 5: The Political Economy of Palestine with Adam Hanieh Donate to Middle Eastern Children's Alliance (MECA) Anera: Provide urgent humanitarian aid to Palestinians Write your member of Congress to demand an immediate ceasefire The cover art for this episode was originally designed by Thomas Greenwood and was slightly adapted by Carolyn Raider for this episode. Thank you to Ferkat Al Ard for the intermission music. Samih Al Qasem's "Wait For Me": My neck is on the edge of the knife, O, my homeland, and yet I tell you: Wait for me! And my hands are tied behind my back, O, my homeland And yet I sing for you, o, my wound..I sing "I have not betrayed you… so don't betray me I have not sold you..so don't sell me!" The homeland of the miserable psalms and the lost faces the homeland of the vengeful roots the homeland of the storms, thunderbolts, and cold nights the homeland of the stolen orchards and the prayerful palms the homeland of the villages, ruins, blood, and crying Do I strengthen your resolve? Or do you, o betrayed one, strengthen my resolve? The homeland of the old lies, tales, and prophets Do I become your secret? Or do you, o betrayed one, become my secret? The homeland of fragmentation in exiles, Strange airports, and ports homeland of anger homeland of flames You, whose hands are kissed through the tears of one million refugee! Homeland of humiliation, distress, and pride I believed in the love which gives, and which dissolves in giving.. Thus, I say to you: Wait for me! My neck is on the edge of the knife, But I say to you: Wait for me!" This episode of Upstream was made possible with support from listeners like you. Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.