In this episode of the ‘Reconstructing Inclusion’ podcast, Amri expresses concerns over the perceived threats to DEI, outlining that the resistance stems from a misunderstanding of what DEI truly signifies, beyond just representation and affirmative action. He explores the concept of 'Iatrogenic effects'—a medical term, indicating a treatment that causes more harm than good. Amri draws parallels between such unintended negative outcomes in healthcare and similar phenomena observed in DEI implementations, where initiatives sometimes inadvertently foster dependency, exclusivity, or counter-productive tensions. Through personal anecdotes and references to scholarly works, Amri makes the case for a reevaluation of DEI strategies, urging a shift towards inclusivity, agency, and a methodical questioning of DEI practices to ensure they foster genuine progress rather than unintended setbacks. Lastly, he encourages DEI practitioners and supporters to see current criticisms not as an attack but as an opportunity to refine and advance their approaches to truly make organizational and societal change.

 

Timestamps:

00:15 Understanding DEI and Its Opportunities

00:45 The Current State of DEI

01:25 Defining DEI and Its Importance

02:28 The Challenges and Misconceptions of DEI

06:03 The Concept of Iatrogenesis in DEI

11:18 The Impact of Iatrogenesis in DEI

14:18 The Role of Exclusivity in DEI

31:02 The Importance of Agency in DEI

34:41 The Role of Intentional Broadening in DEI

38:50 The Future of DEI

40:25 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

 

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

 

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