In this episode of the AIGA Design Podcast, host Lee-Sean Huang and Giulia Donatello interview author and consultant Karl Sakas ("Say Kiss”). Karl’s clients often call him their “agency therapist.” They discuss the challenges agency owners face, including misconceptions about agency ownership, pricing strategies, and the importance of understanding market rates. Karl shares insights on productizing services, revenue growth, and how to escape the daily grind of agency ownership. The conversation emphasizes the need for agency owners to work smarter, not harder, and to focus on their strengths while delegating tasks effectively. They also delve into various aspects of running an agency, including the challenges of client strategy and sales, the importance of visualizing the future of the agency, understanding cultural differences in business practices, and the multifaceted nature of performance in leadership.  Karl's latest book, Work Less, Earn More - https://amzn.to/41n4jvn  Sakas and Company - https://sakasandcompany.com/  Karl’s upcoming book, Calm the Chos: 10 Ways to Run a Better Agency - https://calmthechaos.xyz/  Recommended book - Overcoming Underearning: A Five-Step Plan to a Richer Life by Barbara Stanny - https://amzn.to/4i5bptK  Recommended book - Meltdown: Why Our Systems Fail and What We Can Do About It Hardcover by by Chris Clearfield and András Tilcsik - https://amzn.to/3X2WdoY Join us for the 2025 AIGA Design Conference, October 9-11 in Los Angeles, California - https://www.aiga.org/design/aiga-design-conference Listen/Subscribe to the audio version of this podcast on your preferred platform -  https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/aigadesign