Dahlia Lithwick is joined by Professor Melissa Murray of NYU Law School, who gave blistering testimony at the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings last week. They talk Roe v Wade, when precedent counts and when it doesn’t, and what the likely confirmation of Kavanaugh to the Supreme Courts means for reproductive rights writ large. Plus, Dahlia Lithwick shares highlights from an on-stage conversation between her and Justice Elena Kagan this past week, where they covered division in the court and in the country, how Chief Justice Roberts steers the court through choppy waters, and civility.

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Podcast production by Sara Burningham.

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