In what ways is the classroom devoted to liberal learning also a sacramental place? In this conversation, Sr. Albert Marie Surmanski, O.P. (herself a scholar of St. Albert’s sacramental theology), discusses parallels between the classical understanding of the sacraments and the experience of a classroom animated by liberal education. Along the way she also introduces us to texts by Josef Pieper, Alasdair MacIntyre, and Pope Saint John Paul II that can illuminate our path as we seek to leave the Cave. Links of Potential Interest: Sr. Albert Marie Surmanski, O.P., On the Body of the Lord Her academic website Josef Pieper, Leisure the Basis of Culture (with an introduction by T.S. Eliot) Alasdair MacIntyre, God, Philosophy, Universities: A Selective History of the Catholic Philosophical Tradition The University of St. Thomas’ Academic Programs: